PASSPORT SAGA: The Greek Bureaucracy strikes back UPDATED!

UPDATE: I TALKED WITH THE GREEK EMBASSY in Thailand. It was like a waste of time and money. On the other hand i got some answers from Jakarta

UPDATE 2: I received this articles by a blog reader. Just to show to people i am not the only one that has problems. The Greek state is invisible! IF you think iwas aggresive in my posts read this newspape

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You can run but you cannot hide! The Greek Bureaucracy can find you anywhere in the world and strike at you. You may try to leave Greece and live in a Normal foreign country but the scourge will follow you there.   In this world there is a solution to everything except AIDS and Greek Ineffeciency. It seems they are right! You may ask why i am fuming around like a bull! Ok let me give you an unbiased version of my story, or as some people may call it my Odyssey... SOme of you may say it is my mistake other may say it is just a bad mess up I would like people to leave their comments about my Saga!I have to say thanx to all my fellow MBAS and some comments. I have received google queries to my site with the following keywords Greece Passport, Send passport via mail, renew passport greek foreign country, greek passports 2007, passport bureaucracy From the following countries: Peru, Phillipines, Japan, Ireland, Brazil, SOuth Africa and Rusia. It seems i am not the only victim of Bureaucracy. let me add a new piece of the story. I need to have a degree from my municipality, which shows my family status. Imagine if i didn't have any family in Greece! how would i be able to go to the embassy and get the application? And for your informaiton the consulate in SIngapore according to the secretary there, exists only for shipping interests and nothing else. bye!

Greece decided to issue some new passports. Allright! It also decided that new passports will replace the old ones on January of 2007.  I was doing my military service during 2006 and so i couldn't go to renew my passport, due to laws forbidding you to apply for a passport while you are soldier(imagine how many people like the army service). To be honest the databases aren't online and the greek public sector is so inefficient that i could go and apply for a passport. Alas, i needed my civilian ID which i didn't have unfurtunately. SO i was unable to renew my passport until i was dischraged Anyway i had to leave Greece immediately after i Became a human again in order to start lessons at INSEAD, not to go travelling ot some exotic place. I had to start my MBA studies. At that time i had asked the Police force whether i would be able to use my passport after January 2007.I aksed the police force since they were responsible for issuing new pasports. I also tried ot have a new ID card. Their direct answer was "YES! as long as you do not trave to the USA for 1 year". I, young guy, of course fell for it. I didn't try to double check. The police officer at the station toldme not to worry about it and that i can renew it when i come back to Greece and that is 100% usable.

In Singapore now i was studying hard at iNSEAD and preparing my christmas trip. Last Sunday i started receiving a lot of phone calls from my parents. I have to admit i wasn't interested at what was happenning at Greece since i had left this country. It seemed that there was an uproar about the issuing of new passports. I had definetley to have a new passport, otherwise i won't be able to travel.  Imagine my shock when i leared this.There were all these projects PLUS this new surprise.

So now the story gets interesting. First of all there is no Greek embassy in Singapore. So when i arrived in Singapore i thought there isn't any place where i can go and register, so they could notify me. So I have to go to Thailand to apply for a new passport. This apporach will cost me 2 travels to Bangkok, 1 time to apply for a new passport and one time to receive it again. It will take 2 months. No issue of temporary passport is possible, according to the Greek consulate in SIngapore(have still to verify this). THe reasooning is that there will be no temporary passports for security reasons.

Ok let's look at the faults of the first approach.

1:) I need to fly 4 times just to renew my passport just because my country doesn't have an embassy in Singapore. The Greek state doesn't cover for the travel expenses, it has to be self financed.

2:) Try a different angle. Since it will take a minimum of 2 months, even i f i go to bangkok on Thrusday the 22th of November, I will receive it in person on January the 22th. How can i travel to Bangkok if my passport is invalid? Remember there is no remote possibility to have a temporary passport.

just for the fun of it i will post the dialog with the public sector employee in Thailand

DRIN DRIN EMBASSY person 1: Hallo Greek Embassy, how may i help you please?

Zanat0s: I would like to speak with someone who talks Greek about the new passports.

Embassy person 1: Wait a moment please Music plays in the background

Mr X, : WHo is it? Zanat0s: hallo I am from Singapore and I just found out that I have to renew my passport at this embassy ASAP Mr X: Yes it is right. Zanat0s: Could you tell me how long it takes or what documents you want me to provide you with? Mr X: No sorry the person responsible for this is on leave.

Zanat0s: ON leave? When is he coming back?

Mr X: On December the 18th.

Zanat0s: I c. Why is that? THere is nobody who replaces him? I cannot believe that.

Mr X: Yes there is a replacement, but he is also on leave until the 1rst of December.

Zanat0s: What you are kidding me right? Who arranges how the vacations are distirbuted?

Mr X: I do not know. I am not responsible.

Zanat0s: Yeah yeah. Noone is for anything. So can you tell me when i can get my passport back if i come there by tomorrow afternoon?

Mr X: No you shouldn't. You should come after the 1rst of December when someone responsible will be here.

Zanat0s: No way. You are messing with me right? So what if i came uninvited will you just turn me away?

Mr X: I told you sir, noone here knows about this and the people responsible are on leave.

Zanat0s: But you work for the embassy. that's you job, to help Greeks in foreign lands. How can you do that when you cannot provide basic services.

Mr X: I do not know about this procedure. It is not my job to know about it. I am sorry i cannot help you. Call Greece, they can provide you with all the answers you need.

Zanat0s: is there any1 there than can give me information?

Mr X: no. why are do you ask the same questions over and over again? There is no1 here who knows how to answer your questions?

Zanat0s: THis is outrageous. I am calling to get some answers form my embassy and the only thing i learn is that only 2 people can inform me and both of them are on leave?

Mr X: I can do nothing to help you. You should call again next week.

Zanat0s: can i send you my documents via courrier?

Mr X: No you have to be here in person.

Zanat0s: So how will i receive my passport when it is ready?

mr X: you will come here again.

Zanat0s: but since it will be invalid? how can i come?

Mr x: you should ask the guys who know, not me

Zanat0s: can you at least provide me with temporary travel documents?

Mr X: Only to go back to Greece. Zanat0s: This is getting nowhere. i think i will call Jakarta.

Mr X: Good luck sir .

So the first apporach cannot happen, mostly for the 2nd reason.

I tired to call the Greek state at Greece. there is a webpage regarding this procedure. http://www.passport.gov.gr. Some remarks the page is only in Greek. What about the Greeks who live in a foreign coutnry and speak no Greek? no considreation for them or just bad planning. Secondly, if you want to contact them there is only a telephone number available. We are in 2006 and the greek state hasn't discovered the productivity benefits of emails. . What about the phone number? Most other coutnries have special numbers for citizens living abroad, no Greece doesnt! So I had to try to call Greece from Singapore, thanx to Estonias(yes Kart) for programming Skype! On tuesday i tried for 40 minutes to get somebody to talk to but no! I would always hear someone saying in Greek of course "Sorry all our lines are busy. Try again later!".So my apporach to get information failed.

In my desperation i tried to call the Greek Embassy in London. Yes! London, i thought that the Greeks in London may be of a bigger help than the Greeks in Greece. My first question "To whom can i talk about the new passports?" was greeted with the common greek answer "She is not here in the moment, Can you leave a message?". I wasn't going to admit defeat so easily! I started asking her questions, to which i would get another common greek response,"Sorry I do not know, i am not responsible for it". It was another waste of money and valuable time.

I had sent in the last 2 days emails to greek embassy in Thailand and Japan. After 3 days no replies yet. It seems they treat email like normal letters, they take their time replying ot them, after 1 week. Now it get even more interesting.  I talked with my best friend and told him ot investigate the matter. He called me back confused. He got 3 different apporaches, all contradicting by 3 different departments. The easiest solution would be to send my passport back to Greece and have my parents renew it. BUT NO, we are greeks we do not like simple and convenient solutions.

This morning i called the french embassy, since there is no Greek authority here, for issuing passports. Alas, the friendly lady from the French embassy informed me that there is a Greek consulate. There was mention of the conslulate on any Greek website but not any contact information. So this discovery was announced to me by our glorious french counterparts. Just for the record, the consulate has no power to issue passports.

So the poor zanat0s decided to call the Greek consulate. The first thing i heard was scolding why i didn't register with theThis lady was friendly but not very helpful. She just told me that she is not "responsible" and she can only inform me.  My question was what will happen to me if I am in Japan on the 2nd of January and i cannot leave the country? no answer was given. She told me that i should call the Japanese embassy and ask them. I asked her again what would happen if i were in SIngapore? would i be able to travel or would i be stranded?no answer was given again. She gave some paternalistic advice like i should have "renewed" my passport while i was a soldier! Clever advice. Other than that she suggested to go back to Greece and renew it in 3 days. Hmm! let's check the validity of that statement...

1) fly to greece, on my own expenses +1000 euro expense and miss my trips or classes.

2)it will take just 3 days, according to her! I wish it did. It takes around 15 days according to my friends.

So this option is the safest but also very time and money demanding. SO now i am writing this saga and contemplaitng my next move. i want to use this blog to praise the Greek state and the Greek mentality. I will use this saga as an example in LO. I am trading my greek citizenship with singaporean right now!I won't need a visa for USA and china, two huge benefits.

SO first thing today was to call the Greek Embassy in Thayland..... Guess what! The Empolyee responsible for the NEW passports is ON LEAVE until the 18th OF DECEMBER! I was calm and asked the man whether he has a substitute. Indeed he has but he is also on Leave until next Tuesday. Did this man on the phone give me any answers? No because he wasn't responsible for it. When i asked him why he is not informed he gave me a very persuading answer, "If you are a civil engineer i won't come to you and ask you about irrelevant stuff". I countereted by saying that all the employees at the embassy are there to give detailed information about our situation and also give the right advice. He did neither, just adviced me to call back after Monday. The only temporary passport they can use is one to go back to Greece. Just for the record even if i went there today they wouldn't help me because the employee is on leave. HE had no comment when i enquired who authorises this kind of vacations? it is outrageous that there is no1 at the embassy to ask about this matter at the moment. So i still do not know what happens if i go there renew my passport. WIll i be able to travel outside Thayland or do i have to stay there and wait? If i can go back to SIngapore(since my old passport is still valid by December) how can i visit Thayland again? Questions without answers. I will not say anything more about the efficiency of the Greek state outside Greece.....

TO show i am not unbiased i will give Kudos to Mr XXXX from the Greek Embassy in Jakarta. In the beginning he told me i shouldn't call him because the embassy in Jakarta is not responsible for Singapore. He was ready to hang up untill he heard that his counterpart in Bangkok was on leave for a month. He gave me concrete answers to all my questions, except the one regarding to what will happen to me on the 2nd of January. He concurrs that all this situtation is not to be taken seriously. The Greek embassies have lost their ability to issue passports, even emergency ones(those to the ones saying that to have an emergency passport is easy). He told me he can have it ready in 20 days. That's some relief but not ideal. The good news is i get to keep my passport, but he still doesn't know how i can pick it up if it is ready in 2007. My odyssey still goes on........................................................ let's see where i end up...

About temporary passports. Dr suess got his new temporary passport from the Austrian embassy in 15 minutes. Ok let's assume he is lying. he may ahve gotten it in 30 minutes(100%).  Temporary passports are supposed to give you leeway when you need it. This is my last resort. But until now i haven't received a clear answer to whether i can or cannot use them. and for the ones who told me abou me being irresponsible i have to say that i told the sotry, i took my measures, but it seems you cannot even rely on the police. You may think i am overreacting, probalby you wouldhave done the same if you were in my shoes. But i am afraid I will end like TOM HANKS in TERMINAL!  I will run and down in S ingapore without being able to leave the country.

SOit seems. ANyway the improtant fact is that  my fellow MBA students stand by me and i will figure it in the end. But my question remains. SInce the consulate cannot issue passports. what would have happenned if i  had lost my passport? WOuld i live like TOm hanks in the temrminal?

Comments

[hallonman]

Dude, this is outrageous!?!?!? What are you, some third world country? ;)

Just kidding, but I feel your pain.

It's tough to be stuck abroad!

[Amit]

Feel your pain man

[Jack]

IMBA!
New approach: Find an underground organazation and make a fake ID and PASSPORT for the month u need! :D

[sepultribe]

hang in there and good luck . . .

i say . . .
back to the primitive

its the only solution

[seb]

That definitely sucks. try notto get mad at it and find the quickest way to get out of this mess. Good luck!

[Briki]

Being a Greek who has lived in London for the last 23 years I have these words to say:

1. Why did you listen to the police in Greece. The majority are a bunch of muppets - just look at the GPA requirement to get into the Greek police force!

2. The Greek embassy in London has the worst collection of muppets in the Greek speaking world! I speak from experience.

Advice:
Go to the Singaporean authorities and ask for asylum!!! Once you become a Singapore citizen, apply to join their public sector. There, they recruit the brightest and pay them more than the private sector. That is how Singapore has become such an advanced country in such a short period of time. Then go back to Greece, overthrow the government and impose a dictatorship. Impose some public and private sector reforms and then maybe we will be able to join the rest of the world in the 21st century... Then all the well educated Greeks who live abroad will return to Greece and apply their skills and knowledge to greatly improve the state of our economy and country. At this point Greece will stop living off past glories and will be able to look towards a bright future...

It's a beautiful dream...

[Pauline]

marry a singaporean girl. that's your only hope to get a new citizenship!!

Seriously, Greek administrive efficiency is hampered by how spread out the islands are. THat's the problem.

[jack]

I know who can solve your problem!

Detective CONAN!

[caller]

Ok,this sucks big time man. Of course,not something new to me. I face these and such kind of comedies(or tragedies) everytime I try to complete something that requires visiting ANYTHING that has to do with some kind of bureocratic function in this country that possibly doesn't really exist or "live" anymore. Can't really give you a solution,because I can't seem to see any from being inside this mess daily. Dunno,if you like Singapore that much and can live there then better get a citizenship or something.

[PJ]

I called the civilian service number and the person on the phone was extremely kind. She straight away gave me the phone number for the headquarters for passport matters, and as I was dialing I thought: "My God, can it be this easy?". Of course I realized that the number they gave me was permanently busy... As I should have guessed.

[xBerliner]

If you want to travel immediately to Greece got to the greek consulate and get a temporar traveling document. You can use it just once to go to Greece. There you should go to the police and ghet a new passport in three days.

Alternative, if you do not need a passport NOW, go the the greek consulate and apply for a new passport. For greek consulates in EU countries the procedure takes about 3 to 4 weeks.

The greek embassies and/or consulates do not issue passports anymore. On the hand that is awful, but on the other hand is the only way to ensure that no fake greek passports are issued at the democraties of former USSR (you know, half of the prostitutes in europe have fake greek passports issued somewere in former USSR).

[Doron]

My sympathies, my friend.
You probably are better off sticking around Singapore after graduation and getting citizenship.
Anyway, at least enjoy a holiday in Thailand while in the process of applying for your new passport....

[GreekLOVER]

Greece is the best coutnry to live in. You know nothing about greece. You are not Greek, that's why we won't give you a passport. Go and rot in singapore where everything stinks and eat dogs

[Robin]

I say you buy me a ticket to Greece, and I will go party on the islands while I wait for your passport to come through. That way, you only lose out on the money part. You can also give me money to gamble on blackjack, and then you're fully clear after I bring back the winnnings and pay you for the ticket. I'll pay you to take my exams, and now this situation has just landed you in the black.

Congratulations, you have now found the thick silver lining surrounding that fluffy Greek cloud that sits above the beautiful blue waters and white sand beaches of the Greek isles. Smooth sailings lie ahead.

Don't worry, be happy. It'll all work itself out... as it always does.

[Royani]

Aaaawwww that is so sad. No consulate is worst. Actually the consular can help you but still its up to them to reject you. Such a pity. Why not you just try to go to the nearest greek embassy in asia...? Poor you. Can't help much.

[alex9]

Hello,
I have a friend that is working in the place where they are issuing the passports and he told me that when there is a real emergency they can issue passports in a few days (maybe 2-3). I think that you should send your passport to your parents the safest way, they should have it renewed and send it back to you. Claim a reason like law obbligations or something.

[Me]

*edit. Write comments after u read the article

Oh..and sending your passport to your parents doesn't work. You have to take the new passport yourself.

Good luck!! You are going to need it :)
*thanx for the luck. I won't give up the fight.

[artemis]

this is not a matter for the greek bureaucracy.it is
a decision from the european
union .
artemis k

[artemis]

you are not very responsible.yu must knew that thereis a greek consulate in singapore.
you must renew yr passport
yrself.you are an adult and
yu must take care of yrself.
passport is very important matter.there is not anything
bureaucratic from the greek authorities. you want other people to solve yr problems.

[costask]

When I hear stories like this, I always try to remember what Socrates said 2,500 years ago..
"I 'm not an Athenian or a Greek but a citizen of the world"..
I believe it's also a matter of expectations..
When dealing with the greek public sector, I 'm always prepared for the worst, so any surprise is a pleasant one..
Taking a different perspective, you can see it as a challenge..If you can deal with the greek public sector, then you can do everything..
Still haven't renewed my passport..
It will be so much fun this Christmas..
Looking forward to meet the Greek authorities..

[Nikos]

First of all, it is absolute comedy that so many of us Greeks that have replied decide to be offensive rather than accept/ contest the situation the bureaucracy in our country is in. 3rd world, you're damn right we are.

Second of all, send your passport to your parents and get a doctor to write that you need to come to Greece ASAP for medical purposes. NO ONE in public office in the whole country will want to take responsibility for not granting you an emergency passport so you should be fine.

[wiwin]

Since nobody knows whether you should have a new passport by Jan 2007, you should just go to Japan with your old passport!! When Jan 2 comes, and you need to leave Japan, I doubt the Japanese won't allow you to leave the country. Worse come to worse, they will deport you back to Greece.. And then you can make your passport there. Otherwise, if there's no problem, just come back to Singapore... I think this new passport thingy is the biometric or whatever that is imposed by US immigration. So if you don't go to the US, it should be fine (just like what the police said).. Well, so just go, MAN! Japan is waiting for you! And stay in Singapore too... doesn't matter... Well, it might be a bad advice...

[Jenny Santi]

Why don't you just get married to an American citizen and assume her citizenship!

[InvisibleInk]

Sounds very annoying indeed. I hope it can get sorted out in the easiest way possible. They should put a health warning at the entrance immigration and passport offices for high levels of stress they cause. Believe me, to some degree variations of this happens in many countries. If it makes you feel better, you're lucky you are part of EU and don't suffer from immigration and visa procedures for every country you visit.

I once lost my passport in Canada and my country's embassy issued travel documents for me to go back to my country. So, if you want to act in true med style then you can go to Japan have your holiday. While you are there go to Greek embassy and get your travel papers. Meanwhile, ask your parents to find someone they know in Greece who can speed up the process of issuing the passport. Hopefully, it can be done in a day. (This would be your customary Mediterranean touch) Go to Greece for a 2-3 days and get your new passport. Looking on the positive side, you'll earn lots of miles for your next trip! :o)

[Devil's attorney]

Giving the police the authority to issue passports and then having EVRYONE have their passports changed, was among THE MOST STUPID THINGS that the Greek state could do.
However, you should have had a look at the links below...
http://10.5.224.138/www.mfa.gr/el-GR/Services/Directory/GreekAuthoritiesAbroad/#Σ

or
http://10.5.224.138/www.mfa.gr/en-US/Services/Inventory+of+Services/Greek+Missions+Abroad/#S

Unfortnately, the only rational solution is to get back to Greece for a week and obtain a new passport.